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Another Review (Taking another whack at it)

Discussion in 'Starbound Discussion' started by Squishybrick, Oct 16, 2014.

  1. Squishybrick

    Squishybrick Phantasmal Quasar

    I might've already tackled some parts of this game in a previous post, and I'm sure many other might have too, but
    I finally decided to try this game again, and voice my opinions on it.

    I've finally accepted after many people telling me "That's just not the direction the devs are going" that planet-naming simply
    won't be a feature any time soon, so I developed a system of merely listing all "Controlled" planets on a text file to help keep
    my efforts organized..

    Here's some of my thoughts on the game itself, beyond that mess..

    1. Why do enemies "lag"?
    I've NEVER seen a singleplayer game where basic NPC monsters "lag" before.. How is that even possible?
    Usually when a non-online game lags, the entire game will either slow down or momentarily freeze up, but in
    starbound, it's like they're being controlled by players with 300+ ping.. Their movements, and even their death and
    item drops are delayed, when nothing else in the game is.. I'm not exactly saying it's a pressing issue, but it has
    always mystified me as to why that even happens.. It can make killing them easier since on occasion they're too
    "Laggy" to immediately respond to getting whacked 3 times with a sword before finally deciding to hop away..
    Thankfully the lag doesn't affect them in any positive way, like causing them to teleport forward or anything.. It just
    delays/freezes them..

    2. Resource-heavy Apex/human labs.
    Once in a while, the game itself actually DOES lag.. Whenever I get too close to an apex/human lab.. This is annoying.. It hasn't
    gotten me killed, but having the game slow down when you're trying to move through one of the most interesting parts of the
    game itself is a little discouraging.. Something tells me what with "The direction the devs are going", THIS problem may not be
    fixed any time soon either.. Seems like all I ever see on their progress log is screenshots of new content that won't be added
    for half a year, and how they're making the game easier for modders to mod..

    That frankly angered me.. The only thing going through my mind was "WHY? Stop inviting other people to make your game for you and just make it yourself! It's YOUR game!".. I sought a higher power about this issue, and he told me the reason the devs do
    this, is because focusing all your energy on making a single massive game can wear you out very fast, so making the game
    easy to mod invites people to add features to the game that the devs either missed, or didn't have the energy to make.. This
    also gives the devs a chance to let the mods unknowingly decide what features WILL be permanently added in the game, as the
    devs may often find the most popular mod, and then integrate it in the game so it is no longer a mod, making their work easier,
    and giving the modders a chunk of credit for supporting the game. Minecraft (and maybe terraria) does this, and it seems to
    work out well.. I guess the moral here is "beggers can't be choosers".. The devs are doing good work.. Just not the work I want..
    And I can (eventually) live with that.. I won't dare call them lazy for it, because I know from personal experience how draining focusing your energy on a single project can be.. Which is why devs never seem to cling to one good game for too long.

    3. Why does the gravity change?
    I don't claim to know a lot about physics.. But I'm pretty sure the gravity on a planet isn't supposed to change depending
    on where you are on that planet.. The only thing I can think of to explain this is, the gravity seems to only change from low
    (If it's originally low) to normal/high when you get near any kind of settlement, because maybe settlements are secretly
    installed with artificial gravity. Which scientifically would make perfect sense.. But if that were the case, I'd like that to visibly
    be implemented in the game, like making certain blocks that "regulate" gravity the more of them you put in an area.

    4. The music is.. "Too" epic...
    I like the choice in music for the game currently, but it has 2 flaws.. The first being, it's constant.. And that wouldn't be a flaw except for the second problem.. The music that plays is NOT theme music.. It's closer to the "movie-style soundtrack" genre.. So what
    we get is music that seems like it's just a bit too "big/epic" for the game itself.. Again, not really a big problem, but it's one none the
    less.. If they went with terraria's style and added "themes", like a tune that would only play when you're in an ice biome or
    an asteroid field or such, that would be AWESOME.. Especially with modding since you could stick in your own tunes and
    customize the feel of the game as such. That would make the music a little less repetitive, seeing as from what I've heard
    there's less than around 5 tracks that ever play, and that feeling of epicness wears off pretty fast when you've heard the same
    tune that basically says "Wow, you're on a planet in space, isn't this fantastic?" for the 50th time..

    5. Bosses and difficulty balance
    I know for a FACT this topic's been bashed too much so I don't even need to touch it..

    ----------------

    If I can count how many defining problems a game like this has in one hand, clearly they must be doing something right,
    and I have "some" faith they'll keep on that path for a long time.

    I shall continue my galactic conquest and control every planet/galaxy until I've either obtained every item in the game, or
    died from boredom. (Same way I play any sandbox game.)
     
  2. renojonathanr

    renojonathanr Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    :rofl:

    Wish you the best of luck, mister.
     
  3. ry4444n

    ry4444n Subatomic Cosmonaut

    replies in italics
     
  4. Squishybrick

    Squishybrick Phantasmal Quasar

    I could rant for hours about this poor game.. But I really do just need to accept that this game is hopeless.. The second I saw it, I thought "Terraria, with space travel? HELL YEAH!" but with all the potential this game has, there's just not enough being done to expound on that potential..

    As far as I'm concerned, this is just a galaxy-plundering simulator.. And that's good enough for me.. But if I was to take this game how it was originally meant to be taken, I'd only be filled with disappointment and wondering "what were they thinking?"..
     
  5. The | Suit

    The | Suit Agent S. Forum Moderator

    There are quite a few problems with your review.

    1 and 2 in particular.
    If you saw a house under construction - would you complain why a wall is missing?

    [​IMG]

    I mean seriously. what was the developer thinking making a house without walls?!

    ===
    Or to put it more bluntly - the game is not completed yet - so making such statements is about as silly as above. Optimizations and bugs are generally handled near the end of each phase. More so at the home stretch prior to official release.
    ===
    Point #3.
    May hold a bit more water. Right now all dungeon type files - mini terrain + villages + buildings all have the ability to have their own gravity. This is still partially a feature under construction - so specific dungeons can have gravity for gameplay purposes. Yet not all dungeon gravity has been disabled where not needed.
    ===
    Point 4 - might be the only valid of all the points. Though I personally do not agree to it.
    ===
    Point 5 - Again game is not complete and balancing is only something done when all the features of the game are implemented.
    ===

    If the game was complete your points would have been valid. But you didn't just jump the gun, You started on the finish line.
     
    CaptThad likes this.
  6. Anarchosyn

    Anarchosyn Industrial Terraformer

    Actually, gravity does change (minutely) depending on the density of matter underfoot.

    Ala (a visual map of the Earth's gravity variance): http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...-gravity-geoid-goce-esa-nasa-science/[/quote]
     
  7. jpmrocks

    jpmrocks Phantasmal Quasar

    1. It's in beta
    2. It's in beta
    3. It's a video game
    4. How is this a problem?
     
  8. renojonathanr

    renojonathanr Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    More of the same old, same old.
     
  9. Squishybrick

    Squishybrick Phantasmal Quasar

    *long sigh*

    I've written and deleted over 3 different 5-paragraph rants about how just letting the devs do what they want
    will cause this game to fail, and how giving it a purpose instead of being a true sandbox game has crippled it,
    and how no one but me seems to understand that if the devs don't get active feedback about these problems,
    they WILL unwittingly follow the same fate as every dev who tries to make a good game does..

    But after every rant I'd look up at this thread and see the snarky replies and think "No.. They won't listen, I need to explain it in a way they might actually understand instead of just make petty replies to.."

    But I just can't.. I may be good with words, but there's just no getting through to you people..Maybe that's my fault..
    Maybe I'm just not intelligent enough to find a way to explain it that's understandable...

    If you really think this game's gonna magically work out.. Good for you.. Cheer the devs on, enjoy the game,
    do whatever you want.. .. I'm done.. Just do me a favor and mark a memo on the records stating that I tried,
    and look me up to shove it in my face if the game actually does become successful.. I would very much be
    delighted to be proven wrong..
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2014
  10. jpmrocks

    jpmrocks Phantasmal Quasar

    K, bye bb. You wont be used <3.

    (bolded my responses for teh lols)
     
    Darklight likes this.
  11. Zebe

    Zebe Space Kumquat

    My thoughts on these points~

    1 & 2. Personally, I have yet to have serious performance issues. I haven't encountered the NPC lag you describe in singleplayer. It does happen usually to me when I'm on a server w/ many players or poor connection. I don't have a high-end gaming PC, just a regular laptop, so the reason for that isn't in hardware.

    3. The gravity change has a base in gameplay. The game changes the gravity near dungeons/buildings to keep the gameplay in control. For example, the apex challenge courses. With weaker/stronger gravity the course would be easier/harder to clear. The course is designed for a certain gravity, so the gravity is changed. The gravity change is useless in certain buildings, like simple huts, but tbh it doesn't matter too much.

    4. That's fully subjective. I love the music, and it doesn't bore me at all. There is a biome-specific music, but that's experimental and only in game soundtrack which you are able to buy at Steam. Possibly they will be added at some point. All of them are uploaded to Youtube if you want to listen.

    5. Well, I understand your point, but the bosses are not finished. The first one is somewhat complete, maybe they'll rebalance that later in terms of health and attack damage. The other ones are just big creatures with monster AI, which makes them quite boring to have a big battle with.

    Don't think yourself so high and mighty there. You generalize the community to mindless, rude fanboys you're unable to educate about "how hopeless this game is". That does nothing but make you seem a troll.

    Starbound is not a "true" sandbox game. In Steam store page, Starbound has tags: Action, Adventure, Casual, Indie, RPG, Early Access. No Sandbox there. I remember some place describing it as a sandbox with RPG elements. Official site here calls it "an extraterrestrial sandbox adventure game". There never has been a word that Starbound is pure sandbox.
     
    Darklight likes this.
  12. Hopefully this helps some of your concerns...
    1. The game is not optimized in stable. The code is there for nightly to resolve this, but it could be disabled if they're working on a specific function of the system.
    2. Same as #1
    3. Just to make navigation easier. Not everything has to be show and tell. Can you imagine the amount of tedium that would come from low gravity and navigating the deck of the airship. Propeller massacre.
    4. There are more tracks coming, but the epic-ness is by design.
    5. Balancing isn't a major concern at this stage of the beta. When all the game's required systems and mechanics are implemented, the next stage will deal with tuning.
    (For everyone) It's ok if you don't agree with someone's opinion. But please, less snark -- more substance.
     
    Darklight, CaptThad and Tamorr like this.
  13. Squishybrick

    Squishybrick Phantasmal Quasar

    Hang on, hold the flippin' phone.. What do you MEAN starbound isn't a "sandbox game"?.. It's a game where you can manipulate blocks to destroy or create structures, there's almost more place-able (AND useable, which I always thought was something they got right over terraria) furniture than terraria, and you can travel from planet
    to planet either buying things from random villages, or genociding them for their weapons/loot/furniture.

    Maybe I'm just being a nerd, but I thought as a rule of thumb any game that had "block-manipulation", was, by essence, a sandbox game..
    The meaning of a sandbox itself is playing with the sand to create things with it, or to play IN it.. And that's exactly what this game is.. You're playing ON
    planets who's materials you can manipulate to either build a house, or craft said materials into better blocks to THEN build a much-sturdier house from..

    I'd make a comment about someone being pretentious saying this game isn't a sandbox game because it's too "advanced" what with the borderlands weaponry
    and vague RPG elements, but I'd risk looking like I was baited.... .. Oh who am I kidding, I'm the world's easiest target for that..

    I can live with this game being in beta for a suspiciously undisclosed amount of time.. But as I said in one of my pre-deleted rants, it feels like the devs have the whole developement process backwards.. Aren't you supposed to fix bugs, THEN add bells and whistles, THEN fix the bugs caused by those, in that sort've pattern?..

    I never published a single game, but hell yes I've created a ton of them, that's WHY I'm ranting like this.. If I knew nothing of how to develop a game, I'd probably look
    like a giant idiot ranting like I am.. Which according to your perception of me, is what I DO look like right now, regardless that I DO have extensive knowledge on game-making, both from making them myself and watching projects start to finish and how every decision the dev made affected the game.

    I've seen entirely successful projects completely destroyed before my very eyes because a few simple mistakes by the creators..

    They skipped a giant step when making this game by releasing it how it is.. To be truly honest, it almost doesn't deserve the title of beta.. It feels more like an
    alpha.. The purpose of alpha is to build the game, and beta is mostly just relentless testing with building as well, but MORE testing than building being done..
    They built a good foundation for the game, but they're barely doing any bug-work.. Bug-work is supposed to be intravenous.. You fix bugs that you see pop up, so that they don't stack up and turn into a bigger problem later..

    Like the trees.. When first making the coding for the trees, it probably would have been much easier to fix the biome-specific tree bug, but after all the work they've
    done with more data being integrated AROUND that bug, now fixing it is going to have to force them to tear out almost half the game's code just to fix it.. It's like
    if you messed up manufacturing a tiny part of a car engine, but ignored it and then stuck it in the car when it was finalized and THEN the engine messes up,
    you'd have to rip the car apart just to get to the engine to fix that one part..

    And with RPG game bugs? Dear lord it's 800x worse.. If you have a bug you ignore during BETA and let it sit there till near the end, that tiny bug will turn into
    something so grotesquely huge and disturbing you'll actually consider just shutting down the game and starting anew instead of trying to tackle it..

    Bugs are not to be taken lightly.. The earlier in development the bug that isn't dealt with, the bigger a problem it is to fix.. ESPECIALLY if someone who coded the
    original piece that has the bug doesn't work at the facility anymore, and the rest of the team ends up being stumped for a couple months just trying to wrap their
    heads around the code itself, before finally "attempting" to tackle the code..

    Am I taking this too seriously?.. Am I REALLY?.. Maybe none of you are taking it seriously ENOUGH!
    It's definitely one of the two, and I'm not arrogant to claim which it is.. It really could be either..

    You've all responded to my original post concerning the points I made, and I thank for you that.. That issue is mostly resolved and I have no arguments
    with said responses.. But discuss THIS post now.. (It's more efficient than just creating a new thread.)
     
  14. LethalShade

    LethalShade Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    It seems you are biased by some issues that only happen to you (e.g., the lags).


    Start by calm down. Take a deep breath, count to ten, go outside five minutes, I don't know, but do something.
     
    Serenity and Darklight like this.
  15. M_Sipher

    M_Sipher Oxygen Tank

    I just want to say this just shot up my list of favorite phrases.
     
  16. Squishybrick

    Squishybrick Phantasmal Quasar

    And some people wonder why I play the victim card on occasion..

    I'm done.. It's like I'm speaking a completely different language to you guys.. I might as well be striking a debate with a brick wall..
     
  17. The | Suit

    The | Suit Agent S. Forum Moderator

    Just to point out - if the majority of opinion is on the other side. Chances are the brick wall might be having self identification issues.
     
    Darklight likes this.
  18. LethalShade

    LethalShade Scruffy Nerf-Herder

    Same feeling from my side of the wall.
     
    Serenity, The | Suit and Darklight like this.
  19. jpmrocks

    jpmrocks Phantasmal Quasar

    • USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST. Reason: "Being a jerk". Expires: 1 Month
    I think this is third time you've been done, I believe, that I've noticed in this post. What are you, a steak?
     
    Serenity and Darklight like this.
  20. Blackfangx

    Blackfangx 2.7182818284590...

    That ppl can post obvious flaming and rude behavior on a thread a moderator had visited, but no one receives any warning/ban baffles me. Not to be rude, but I've seen quite a few ppl get warnings/ban for much lighter stuff then this recently on these forums, and there is really no excuse for the inconsistency.

    It almost looks as if these ppl aren't being punished because the person they're dogging is posting a negative review on Starbound. This place used to be much nicer.
     

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